Posts by Faithful Witness

27

NEW 'Bible Teach' book... to be released at Annual Meeting?

by Calebs Airplane in

not sure if this has been mentioned on this board yet, but i just heard from a fairly reliable source that the annual meeting will discuss, among other things, major changes in the 'bible teach' book.

has anyone else heard this??.

.

Faithful Witness

Wait a minute! If interpretations belong to God, then why are they in business?

Evidently...

27

NEW 'Bible Teach' book... to be released at Annual Meeting?

by Calebs Airplane in

not sure if this has been mentioned on this board yet, but i just heard from a fairly reliable source that the annual meeting will discuss, among other things, major changes in the 'bible teach' book.

has anyone else heard this??.

.

Faithful Witness

In my recent BS sessions, my elderette, Miss K, wanted me to agree to use the Bible Teach book again.

She pointed at the book, and asked me to read the title out loud.

She asked me what the book was about.

I replied, "This book is about what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible teaches."

She sighed in frustration, but did make an interesting disclaimer. "I'm not going to say that this book doesn't teach the TRUTH... but we will be studying what the BIBLE actually teaches. I'm not going to try to defend every statement made in this book, but we will use the Bible."

She wanted to only use the Bible, but wanted to use that book as a study guide. I tried to explain that I would rather actually READ the Bible, than read books and commentary ABOUT the Bible, but she really didn't get it. When I finally agreed to use that book one more time, I found it full of inconsistencies from the very first section. It is interesting that they are coming out with a new edition of the book. I'm sure it will be received with enormous gratitude... so much easier to answer those difficult questions, when your books line up with your current beliefs.

She never could back up her claims, by using the Bible alone. Everything seemed to be based on conclusions that had been reached by the society. She asked me if she had tried to tell me anything that was NOT in the Bible, and when I pointed those claims out, she shrugged and said, "I just KNOW we have the TRUTH."

Reading the truth, and KNOWING the truth... don't always match.

16

Could they become a real cult?

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i study religions.

i never call new world religons cults.

until they become like heavsn gate etc.. the jw religions is setting itself u for this.

Faithful Witness

HowTheBibleWasCreated:

This is a possible senario theough not likely... however... there is a small chance..

Why do we so-called apostates and infultrator (like me) stand back.. it time to slowly take more control then information

Th GB is NOT the enemy the Writing department and the Board of Driectors are the real men... once I see and infultration and take over there I will be convinced JW's wil splinter... not before

Are you suggesting that JW's would listen to information that did not come from Jehovah's mouthpiece? I know that my family members spend at least 4 hours per week at meetings, being reminded not to listen to anything from outside the walls of the Tower. That does not include the time they spend having these ideas reinforced while they ride around in cars with other JW's, all reassuring each other that they are the ONLY religion that has the TRUTH... since the world is so full of lies.

Every attempt that I have made to enlighten my family members, has fallen flat or made things worse.

----------------

The Jehovah's Witness organization definitely fits the criteria of a "high control" religion. I think the word "cult" is accurate, but should not be used to describe the organization, when speaking to JW's. It is a trigger word, and suggests a sort of inevitable doom (and mass suicide) for the members.

My parents are converts. My dad was raised evangelical, but had become worldly and hadn't attended church in decades. The story of how they ended up JW's is interesting, but pretty typical. I think my mom got baptized about a year ago, and my dad has been officially a JW for almost 3 years now.

Statements made by my parents, that have been enough to cause alarm:

My father (to all 6 of his children, via email): "The top priority in my life is to BE A GOOD JEHOVAH'S WITNESS. I hope you have noticed some positive changes." (I responded and challenged him to ask himself if he was serving God, or was he serving an organization).

Also from my dad: "I don't know... they are smarter than me!" (repeated 3 times in one visit).

When I asked him what was the difference between me following Jesus and what the Bible says, and his being baptized into the organization, he leaned back and said, "I don't know, and that is what I like about this... I don't have to think about it anymore. I don't have to judge people. Jehovah will do that! That is the beauty of this."

My mother has answered direct questions in ways that suggest she is under some type of mind control:

I asked her, "Do you believe that the Watchtower organization speaks for God?" -- (without taking a pause to think) She replied, "Yes, I do."

When I saw the article from the July 15, 2013 magazine, which told them to "be prepared to obey instructions, whether they make sense from a human standpoint or not," I forwarded a copy of the article to them both (appox. June, 2013). She replied, "Don't worry. We won't drink the Kool-aid." (I challenged her and my dad to talk about what exactly they WOULD do... "You might want to think ahead, and think about what human limits you are willing to ignore.")

After the article had been presented in September, I asked her what the reaction had been about that article and the "instructions." She said, "We are all just waiting to see what they are going to tell us to do!" (!!!! WHAT !!!!)

They both seem to be operating under this delusion that if they live their lives for Jehovah, and always appear happy and content when they do come around us (rarely), that we will see the amazing difference in their state of being. We will "want what they have." We will all want to join the worldwide brotherhood and enjoy the fruits of being a JW. instead of having fun with our families on Saturdays, we would be so much happier, if we spent those precious hours riding around in our church clothes, knocking on the doors of empty houses!

18

July WT Study magazine - How can any intelligent person believe these things??

by Faithful Witness in

i haven't been paying attention, i admit... but thought i would go and look at their latest magazine, and see what my parents are spending their precious energy on this month.

my mom retired in may, and we have seen her just once since then.

our invitations have been rejected, due to meetings, conventions, service work requirements, etc.

Faithful Witness

Oubliette: I know you are so right. I recognize the fact that I have some personality and social difficulties that made me susceptible to the influence of kind and loving "guidance" from well-meaning JW's that came to my home regularly for such a long time. It is embarrassing to admit how long I went along with them, to the point of seriously considering whether I had the courage to give up some of my "worldly" associations, and commit to serving the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses. It was my husband who kept me out of the cult. He is too worldly, rebellious and critical to get drop everything and become a servant to "a slave."

I should not have used the word "intelligent" in the title of this post. As has been suggested to me a few times, there are obviously issues in my family, that made us each susceptible to the mindset and programming of the Watchtower. They are experts in their craft, and spend hours each week being programmed and trained to spread the "good news of the kingdom."

My deepest regret in this whole scenario, is that we did not pull away from the JW's, before they had fully programmed us with the concept of how wrong it was to "stumble" someone else in their faith. They used this strange rhetoric every time we would ask "what if" questions...

"Each has to come to their own conclusion."

"We are free to decide how we live our lives. (regarding choices in friends, entertainment, clubs, sports, etc.) The important thing to consider, is whether you want to give time and energy to these things, or if you want to do the things that really please Jehovah (preaching work)."

"When you talk to JW's, you will find that different people come to different conclusions about things (like movies or kid's activities). We remind ourselves it is important not to let our activities STUMBLE anyone else in their faith."

The reason I keep thinking about this logic and programming process, is the way their comments and teachings kept me from exposing the truth about the JW's to my family members, at the time we discovered it. I remember telling my mom that we had made some discoveries about the origins of the organization, and that we were concerned about some major red flags. I had hoped that she was going to ask, "Like what?"... but she was not even curious. I was still so far from being fully awake myself, that I did not recognize what was happening to her, or what had been happening to me for years with the JW's.

I know they would probably not have heard me, but I am still haunted by the thoughts that maybe I could have somehow prevented this cult from destroying our family.

18

July WT Study magazine - How can any intelligent person believe these things??

by Faithful Witness in

i haven't been paying attention, i admit... but thought i would go and look at their latest magazine, and see what my parents are spending their precious energy on this month.

my mom retired in may, and we have seen her just once since then.

our invitations have been rejected, due to meetings, conventions, service work requirements, etc.

Faithful Witness

Excellent replies!

separation and apog: I *almost* became a Jehovah's Witness. (at least, that is the easiest way to describe it to someone who never was one). I did enjoy the "community" feeling, and they treat new people like treasures. The love-bombing really did work on me. My over-critical analysis, and my husband's rebellion against their bullying and overemphasis on minutia, stunted our "progress," to the point of our BS teacher finally threatening my husband in private. (threats of death at Armageddon didn't get very far with him... you don't PUSH an intellectual into believing you)

punk: I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees their wording as so strange and cultic.

leaving: Exactly! You made an great point. How do they handle that "bait and switch," with someone who is paying attention? I find this particular issue of the WT to be timely and interesting, since this is almost the same conversation I tried to have with my dear elderette, Miss K. One of her main points about Jesus and his name being above ALL names, was the response, "Yes, that is true, BUT who GAVE him that power???"

Jesus Christ is merely a tool to get to "Jehovah."

I guess I have never noticed before, their arrogance being displayed in such an obvious way. "We bear the name of God." -- Really??

And, the way they so confidently outline specific and estimated dates in this article

(July 2014 Watchtower, pages 30-31, starting in paragraph 7, under the subheading "A Ransom in Exchange for Many"). These dates are specified:

7: Pentecost 33CE - Jehovah graciously accepted the value of Jesus' perfect human sacrifice as an atonement for sin

8: "Some 27 years after Pentecost CE, it could be said that 'the message of truth of the good news' had reached Jews and Gentiles' in all creation under heaven.' -Col. 1:5, 23"

9: original Christian congregation became corrupted. "apostasy, promoted by 'the wicked one,' Satan, would grow and obscure true Christianity until 'the conclusion of the system of things.' (Matt. 13:37-43)

9: OCTOBER 1914 - Jehovah enthrones Jesus as King over the world of mankind, marking the beginning of "the last days" of Satan's wicked system

10: "Modern-day annointed Christians pointed in advance to October 1914 as a significant date." ... "the sign of [Christ's] presence" became clear for all to see

11: 1919 - post-war year opened up possibility for worldwide witness to be given about God's means of salvation and the good news of the established Kingdom.

12: mid-1930's onward - "it became evident that Christ had started to gather millions of his 'other sheep,' who would make up a multinational 'great crowd.' "

It is fascinating to watch them cling to these dates, when the quoted verse used to introduce the article seems to directly contradict that anyone would know any specific dates.

This article is titled, "You Will Be Witnesses of Me."

The article's subheading is a few excerpts from Acts 1:7,8:

"[Jesus] said to them: '. . . You will be witnesses of me . . . to the most distant part of the earth.' "

What is significant about the ". . ." ? (they wouldn't leave out anything important in an article that is direct from Jehovah himself ... !!)

Acts 1:7 "He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction."

So the only part of verse 7 that is fit to print here, was "He [Jesus] said to them:" . . . (irrelevant part) . . . skip to verse 8: "you will be witnesses of me"

(as in: you are witnessing me [Jesus] being a witness of "Jehovah" - whom I call Father - but you go ahead and call him by him by a name commonly rendered in English as "Jehovah."

That makes you a Witness of Jesus!

Jesus evidently forgot to say: "I will return in about 1800 years or so, inspect and appoint someone to prepare the way for me to come back to rule over the earth as King in October of 1914)" - they claim they "pointed in advance to October 1914."

Acts 1:8 "But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·de′a and Sa·mar′i·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

I guess what [Jesus] really meant, was that "you" referred to those who actually walked and talked with [Jesus] Christ while he was here on earth. Clearly, this knowledge would be revealed to annointed ones during the last days of "this system of things."

They use 18 words out of 60 (omitting 70% of the text), when using scripture to illustrate the point of this article:

Witness of Jesus = Witness of Jehovah - (Yes, you can call yourself a Christian, and still be a Jehovahian)

([Jesus] came to be a witness of his Father [Jehovah]... in fact, he was the best Witness of Jehovah EVERRRRR...and since no one could ever be a witness of Jesus Christ, if Jehovah had not sent him here, then everyone who witnesses for Jesus, is actually witnessing for Jehovah. When you Witness for Jehovah, you are witnessing his [Jehovah's] power to appoint Jesus to rule over his earthly Kingdom!! Hallelu-Jehovah! Ohhhh... how did I ever miss that connection? It was so obvious and simple all along! ... Thank you, faithful and discreet slave, for that little twist on the truth. Spinning it around like that, it suddenly becomes SO clear! It all makes perfect sense now. How do I become one of Jehovah's Witnesses [of Jesus's Witness of Jehovah's power to give Jesus the power to save us from death]?)

18

July WT Study magazine - How can any intelligent person believe these things??

by Faithful Witness in

i haven't been paying attention, i admit... but thought i would go and look at their latest magazine, and see what my parents are spending their precious energy on this month.

my mom retired in may, and we have seen her just once since then.

our invitations have been rejected, due to meetings, conventions, service work requirements, etc.

Faithful Witness

I haven't been paying attention, I admit... but thought I would go and look at their latest magazine, and see what my parents are spending their precious energy on this month. My mom retired in May, and we have seen her just once since then. Our invitations have been rejected, due to meetings, conventions, service work requirements, etc. Ugh.

I have not read the whole magazine, but it seems that they are really puffing themselves up with pride. Jehovah's People "Renounce Unrighteousness." Hmmmm... sounds like a good idea. (I assume that I am the unrighteous now, since I never agreed to become a JW and "bear God's name").

Don't debate with apostates. Paragraph 20 on page 16: "The privilege of bearing God's name comes with responsibility."

"Jehovah will always love 'those who belong to him' and adhere to his righteous ways." (Like avoiding your grandchildren)

And on page 31, paragraph 11: "Ever since that marked year of 1914, 'the signs of [Christ's] presence' as earth's new King has become clear for all to see." -- (Oh? Can you give some examples of these signs?)

Paragraph 15 on page 32: "Thus, being hated for bearing Jehovah's name is the same as 'being reproached for the name of [Jesus] Christ,' who said to his opposers: 'I have come in the name of my Father, but you do not receive me.' (John 5:43)" -- (Jesus came in the name of his Father, but there is no record of Jesus telling them to use the name Jehovah or any other pronunciation. This would have been yet another place for specific instructions on the use of the name they are so proud to bear).

I'm just so glad we woke up before joining this cult.

61

Outrageous Comment

by Yondaime in

what was the most outrageous comment you ever heard during a wt study?.

.

please share your experiences..

Faithful Witness

As an outside observer, visiting a KH for the first time in 3+ years, we went to watch the reaction and comments to the "new light" article being discussed from the July 15, 2013 WT (1914, 1919, etc.)

There were many disturbing comments made, but most memorable to my ears, was the way the conductor kept repeating and injecting these reminders to the congregation: "We must all stick together on this one." "We are united." This was after his introduction, which included something like, "This is a little confusing, but we know we don't have to understand it."

This article was "discussed" after a talk given about Armageddon (or something to do with angels fighting). The speaker figured out this number during his speech (apparently), and kept shouting about how there are "TEN THOUSAND MILLION angels!!! Imagine that! Ten thousand million angels!"

9

Even my 6-year old son can recognize TRASH when he sees it. He threw a NWT into the public garbage can! Yay!

by Faithful Witness in

we were out walking in a small michigan community this weekend.

we came across a "free lending library" on the street corner.

the sign said, "take a book, leave a book, or do both!

Faithful Witness

joyfulfader: You are right. We should not have made a public display of that. I did have a pang of guilt, tossing any book into the trash. The street was empty at the time, but there is a chance that someone did see us perform that blasphemous act. I will bring this up with my kids today, and we do plan to bring a couple of books to that "library," the next time we visit.

Rattigan: I disagree. The NWT is a perversion of the Bible. (But yes, it just keeps getting worse).

17

My evening at the pub - how many ex-JW's do you think there are?

by berrygerry in

so i'm having a pint and talking to the owner and his gf.. she's talking about her line of work - leads to my family history - and that my wife is in a strange religion.. the owner snorts, and says very disdainfully that his ex was a jehovah's witness.

i said bingo.. then the barmaid pipes in about her grandma and all of her aunts and uncles were witnesses, and were all out.

but the grandma has witness siblings, so went back after 20 years.

Faithful Witness

Robert said: there are too many who have not overcome the WTBTS's mind manipulation and still feel that the WTBTS does have the "Truth" and/or are still adversely affected by the WTBTS's mind manipulation.

EXACTLY! This is the claim that my elderette made, when I was asking her why Ex-JW's were wrong for leaving. "ALL of the people that I know, who have either left The Truth, or been disfellowshipped... ALL of them say the same thing! They KNOW the JW's have the TRUTH. They just don't want to obey."

I'm sure she has put me into this category also: disobedient and unwilling to submit to Jehovah's Organization. My first question to her, being that they had no evidence that the FDS had been appointed to rule over the lives of millions of JW's worldwide.

I'm sure there are millions of disobedient ones in the world today. That is one of the main reasons they have to ramp up their warnings about associating with non-believers. Don't be drawn away from "Jehovah!"

42

My Elderette returns for a final Bible Study session, after I avoided her for 2 months (very long post)

by Faithful Witness in

some of this will be repeat, since it's been a little while since i posted about my "bible study" sessions with miss k, my elderette.

we are talking about the name of jehovah.

thanks for talking with us today.

Faithful Witness

I keep hoping that she will return for one more, last-ditch effort. I knew that inviting Diana to participate would probably scare her away for good.

Although I should have been, I was NOT trying to "destroy the Watchtower" or "bring her to the LORD." I was rather enjoying our critical discussions, and learning a lot about JW behavior by watching her. It was just taking too much away from my family, and I could see myself tiptoeing around the gravity of the situation too many times. I would either spend too much time thinking and preparing for her visit, or I would be unprepared and more vulnerable to her manipulation.

She was getting to me. I knew it. She knew it. ... Not converting me, but still starting to control my behavior, through her "training" techniques.

Whether I was getting to her, I will probably never know.

I guess I will have to wait until the next major campaign, to see if we still get our usual "hit and run" visitors. The last magazine left in my doorjam, was about 6 weeks ago. We live in the territory of a different KH, and I always answer and act interested when they call. They never are able to answer my sincere questions.